Terrorist attack in family. From the author:In this work I share the reflections concerning therapy of the clients who got an incestuous trauma in the childhood. Article is addressed to the beginning psychotherapists and also the practicing colleagues who face this subject in the I write about an incest as about seksualizirovanny violence, about a ritual of control and submission. The incest is an abuse in a relationship with those someone we depend, but not in a blood relationship, and in this sense it is a type of sophisticated violence and a styazaniye of children. Ursula Virtts <
When I for the first time heard from one of the clients a story about violence over her at 7-year age, I was shocked, lost, endured almost intolerable mix of horror, pain, disgust and rage. By that moment I was already quite experienced and steady therapist, but still I remember feeling of helplessness, despair and the only thought in the head:How can I help you? How did you in general survive? Similar experiences arise when you hear about terrorist attacks when you understand that somewhere absolutely nearby there is something terrifying, deprived of any sense, and you can't correct anything, and there is a wish to forget about it rather.
Probably, therefore still there is a myth, that the incest is an unusual occurrence. It is not rare, just about it are silent, it is a shame to speak about it – even in individual therapy and therapeutic groups. Happens that is told, even shout, but it is more often happens desperate (or scandalous) the act of exhibitionism, when there is no an opportunity validly to endure something, and there is a high probability of a retravmatization. I am not afraid to tell the flashmob which passed recently in social networks very brightly showed as far as a hot topic of sexual violence as it is important not to be silent about it, and at the same time – it is how delicately necessary to handle it.
Toxic shame, disgust for itself, deep feeling of by the derelict – here what for years prevents the victims of an incest to speak. And the psychologist's task – to create for the client such situation in which he will be able to risk to trust and to begin to endure all that pain which he in himself carries.
The specifics of work with a trauma of an incest consist not so much in features of clients and their ways to build up a relationship (in fact, it is work with a trauma) how many in a possibility of the therapist to be present at contact. I as the supervisor, often observe strong reactions of therapists:they are shocked up to loss of sensitivity, frightened and lost. Sometimes the therapist, suspecting an incest trauma at the client, consciously or unconsciously ottormazhivat emergence of this subject, often it is extremely not free, etc. I hope, some of my experience will help someone from colleagues not to be afraid and not just to survive near the client, and to retain interest, passion and even to derive pleasure from work, it is kind of strange sounded.
The first and most widespread definition of an incest – incest. But I as psychotherapist am not interested in legal and biological aspects of a problem. If in any culture or separate family adult blood relatives enter intimate relationship and to them it is good, then not my business – to estimate their choice. I consider an incest within sexual violence over As a rule, it is carried out in family, but the tyrant maybe someone from an environment on someone the child anyway depends to someone trusts. It can appear the doctor, the trainer, the teacher, the neighbor, the friend of the family, the uncle or the stepfather. When determining a trauma of an incest not the fact of consanguinity, but asymmetry of a relationship in which the adult exercises the power over the child for satisfaction of sexual needs is important for us. The incest concerning the child is always use and violence, and it injures.
Violence can be committed without direct threat, without physical abuse, under the guise of a game or a confidential conversation. The child (it happens to teenagers) can behave soblaznyayushche and even to derive pleasure. But it is important to remember that responsibility always lies on the adult, and any actions connected with intention sexually to stimulate the child or to use him for own excitement and satisfaction, are violence!
To an incest not only sexual intercourse and touches belongs to intimate zones:it can be sexually painted touches to other parts of a body, a joint dream with adult children, demonstration to children of sexual intercourse, genitals, peeping for the The incest can be and psychological:emotional pressure, control with sexual implication, a talk with the child on sexual subjects. There can be a symbolical incest when there are no sexual actions, but the child plays a role of the wife or husband at the parent. At the same time mother or the father devote the child in deeply personal and even intimate problems, share with him information which the child owing to age can't and shouldn't hear and understand.
This article, is generally devoted to work with the victims of an incest of the 1st order, i.e. those someone were exposed to obvious sexual The incest is tabooed and is condemned in society. In Latin the word incest means dirty, vicious. The tyrant puts a lot of effort to hide the events. The child can directly be threatened with punishment, can offer to make in playful way it our secret. The victim can accuse and shame in what she provoked or even itself I wanted, can do responsible for family integrity or health and wellbeing of the second parent. If mother learns, she won't worry, will leave us, the father will be put in prison, etc.
There are cases when the second parent knows about the events, but also convinces the child not to take out it out of family limits. The child victim becomes the hostage of shame of family and the carrier of a terrible secret. He can't tell, complain, ask to anybody about the help because the ban is imposed on disclosure of a family secret, but he also is afraid to tell. The child can be afraid that he won't be believed, will accuse, it can be a shame to him that it happened to him. Even small children usually feel that they with them do something forbidden, shameful, wrong, but they can't separate psychologically themselves from the Actually, this obligation to be silent about violence also causes the strongest travmatization. Yes, the incest is a gross violation of borders, it is operation and humiliation, it is a nightmare which is endured by the victim often for many years, but impossibility about it to tell, receive a consolation and protection, aggravate a Still the distinctive feature of an intsestny trauma – violence carries out the one to someone the child trusts someone he loves by definition someone has to care and protect. It not just treachery:the parent kind of becomes the sexual partner. The confusion of roles leaves a characteristic mark on the identity of the victim and its ways to build the I can't consider an incest as a single trauma. It is, in my opinion, a family symptom. Possibly, the system in which there is an incest all is dysfunctional. It doesn't mean at all that intsestny families have to be poor, antisocial, consist of psychopaths, addicts ит. It is one of myths about a I have not enough cases for a big research, but there is enough to assume a multiple trauma at the victims of an incest. They are usually injured many times, and to the incest, and in time, and later. In the course of therapy becomes clear that the child in such family was a general container for dumping of various quashed feelings:rage, sexual excitement, shame, fault, disgust. Also almost at all victims of an incest I observe an early trauma of Mothers of children – the victims of an incest are conditionally divided into two groups. The first – passive aggressive, sozavisimy, psychologically unripe women who aren't able to support emotionally the baby, without saying about protecting the grown-up child from the tyrant. Such mothers very much are early adopted or psychologically marry in relation to own children that in itself appears a kind of a psychological incest. The second – imperious, emotionally cold, controlling, functional, it is frequent (but not always) cruel mothers. Such mothers can be absorbing and incestuous and also indifferent, sometimes cynical witnesses of violence in family. It is no wonder that children tell nothing to them:safety and trust are broken.
Many times it is less women who are carrying out direct sexual actions concerning children, than men. Social researches say that about 90% of percent of the criminals who committed sexual violence over children – men. In my practice approximately 4 women were the share of 20 cases, from them only two made direct actions of sexual What experience is got by children as a result of an incest? And what consequences are shown at them already at adult age?
Long violence forms psychology of the victim. Rebenokpoluchayet experience of helplessness, learns to suffer, suppress fear, pain, disgust, anger. Already at adult age such people often are victims of violence, both sexual, and psychological.
Functional address. The child is used, ignoring his feelings and desires. Growing, the victim of an incest seeks to be intimate necessary, to sacrifice the interests for the sake of another, at any cost to conform to requirements of others for the sake of good attitude to itself. They have a fear that if they stop being convenient and necessary, they will be left forever. And, certainly, they concern themselves too functionally and is even ruthless.
3. Gross violation of borders, often lack of any borders. It is unclear, where I where Another – my body doesn't belong to me, my thoughts, feelings, desires aren't important. What earlier on age sexual violence, especially serious an okazyvayutsyaposledstviye for the personality begins. The heaviest are chemical dependences, suicide behavior, boundary frustration, mental violations, phobias, depressions, masochistic trends. All clients who endured an incest in the childhood form dependent or counterdependent Life in a lie and shame. Not only the victim hides from all the shame – everyone in incestuous family about something is silent, everyone builds a lot of psychological protection not to feel shame. It is that case when in an office at first the toxic shame creeps, and the client comes then. The victims of an incest all life feel not such as everything, defective, disgusting, and put a lot of effort that to hide it from people around <.br/> Most of the victims nasiliyachuvstvut themselves guilty how handled them. But the victims of an incest can also feel guilty and before the second parent for treachery., and for the fact that they don't manage to improve a relationship in family, and for the fact that they could derive pleasure during violence, and it is a lot of for what. Toxic fault of clients victims of an incest – one of the most difficult, in my opinion, places in 6. At an incest the child receives the double message:on the one hand, he is devoted in something adult, trust something serious, and it causes pride. With another – he chronically doesn't cope with responsibility conferred on him, the role can't do to him, and it causes despair and powerlessness. Growing, they and rush about between two poles, falling into grandness, into 7. Confusion of roles in family and problems with identity. In classical option of an incest, the girl tempted with the father very much early wins the competition against mother and takes the place of the wife (mistress), at the same time remaining the child and the daughter. For the father she isn't able to cope with a role of the woman owing to age, and she can't be identified with mother as doesn't trust her – mother herself doesn't cope with a role of mother and wife. These girls, irrespective of age, psychologically remain the unripe, eternally young lolita able to tempt men and to compete with women. At the same time a relationship of proximity neither with those, nor with others are inaccessible to them.
Incest as love substitute. The love and care of the parent is necessary for the child, and he is ready for everything if only her to receive. And often a relationship with the tyrant is the closest. Many victims of an incest, except fear, disgust and shame, feel also affection for the parent, and gratitude that that spent time with them, gave gifts and so forth. Also some children can experience Substitution results, and all significant relationship seksualizirutsya. Adult clients can seksualizirovat different requirements:in care, attention, recognition, etc. Without realizing the true desires, they can feel excitement and tempt. Also, if to them someone shows attention, sympathy, interest, they perceive it as flirtation and the invitation to sex. It is worth noticing that it is peculiar to not all victims of an incest, but the psychological sheaf love – violence is at all. Some deserve love sex, others – sacrificing themselves in other ways.
Early sexual stimulation and sexual trauma conduct to various narusheniyamv to the sexual sphere and in perception of the body. There is a lot of these violations, the most widespread of them – discontent with the body, up to dysmorphophobia, complexity in integration of emotional love and sexual. Clients often experience difficulties with excitement in close relations where they are really loved, at the same time easily become excited and derive sexual pleasure in accidental communications. Many victims of an incest belong to sex as to something dirty and disgusting, mechanistic, have disgust and fear of a certain type of sex. Most of my clients can't refuse sex to the partner, and during sex can't tell no when actions of the partner bring them discomfort. The vast majority treats the body very functionally – not only in the sexual sphere, but also in all others.
Terrorist attack in family. From the author:In this work I share the reflections concerning therapy of the clients who got an incestuous trauma in the childhood. Article is addressed to the beginning psychotherapists and also the practicing colleagues who face this subject in the I write about an incest as about seksualizirovanny violence, about a ritual of control and submission. The incest is an abuse in a relationship with those someone we depend, but not in a blood relationship, and in this sense it is a type of sophisticated violence and a styazaniye of children. Ursula Virtts When I for the first time heard from one of the clients a story about violence over her at 7-year age, I was shocked, lost, endured almost intolerable mix of horror, pain, disgust and rage. By that moment I was already quite experienced and steady therapist, but still I remember feeling of helplessness, despair and the only thought in the head:How can I help you? How did you in general survive? Similar experiences arise when you hear about terrorist attacks when you understand that somewhere absolutely nearby there is something terrifying, deprived of any sense, and you can't correct anything, and there is a wish to forget about it rather. Probably, therefore still there is a myth, that the incest is an unusual occurrence. It is not rare, just about it are silent, it is a shame to speak about it – even in individual therapy and therapeutic groups. Happens that is told, even shout, but it is more often happens desperate (or scandalous) the act of exhibitionism, when there is no an opportunity validly to endure something, and there is a high probability of a retravmatization. I am not afraid to tell the flashmob which passed recently in social networks very brightly showed as far as a hot topic of sexual violence as it is important not to be silent about it, and at the same time – it is how delicately necessary to handle it. Toxic shame, disgust for itself, deep feeling of by the derelict – here what for years prevents the victims of an incest to speak. And the psychologist's task – to create for the client such situation in which he will be able to risk to trust and to begin to endure all that pain which he in himself carries. The specifics of work with a trauma of an incest consist not so much in features of clients and their ways to build up a relationship (in fact, it is work with a trauma) how many in a possibility of the therapist to be present at contact. I as the supervisor, often observe strong reactions of therapists:they are shocked up to loss of sensitivity, frightened and lost. Sometimes the therapist, suspecting an incest trauma at the client, consciously or unconsciously ottormazhivat emergence of this subject, often it is extremely not free, etc. I hope, some of my experience will help someone from colleagues not to be afraid and not just to survive near the client, and to retain interest, passion and even to derive pleasure from work, it is kind of strange sounded. The first and most widespread definition of an incest – incest. But I as psychotherapist am not interested in legal and biological aspects of a problem. If in any culture or separate family adult blood relatives enter intimate relationship and to them it is good, then not my business – to estimate their choice. I consider an incest within sexual violence over As a rule, it is carried out in family, but the tyrant maybe someone from an environment on someone the child anyway depends to someone trusts. It can appear the doctor, the trainer, the teacher, the neighbor, the friend of the family, the uncle or the stepfather. When determining a trauma of an incest not the fact of consanguinity, but asymmetry of a relationship in which the adult exercises the power over the child for satisfaction of sexual needs is important for us. The incest concerning the child is always use and violence, and it injures. Violence can be committed without direct threat, without physical abuse, under the guise of a game or a confidential conversation. The child (it happens to teenagers) can behave soblaznyayushche and even to derive pleasure. But it is important to remember that responsibility always lies on the adult, and any actions connected with intention sexually to stimulate the child or to use him for own excitement and satisfaction, are violence! To an incest not only sexual intercourse and touches belongs to intimate zones:it can be sexually painted touches to other parts of a body, a joint dream with adult children, demonstration to children of sexual intercourse, genitals, peeping for the The incest can be and psychological:emotional pressure, control with sexual implication, a talk with the child on sexual subjects. There can be a symbolical incest when there are no sexual actions, but the child plays a role of the wife or husband at the parent. At the same time mother or the father devote the child in deeply personal and even intimate problems, share with him information which the child owing to age can't and shouldn't hear and understand. This article, is generally devoted to work with the victims of an incest of the 1st order, i.e. those someone were exposed to obvious sexual The incest is tabooed and is condemned in society. In Latin the word incest means dirty, vicious. The tyrant puts a lot of effort to hide the events. The child can directly be threatened with punishment, can offer to make in playful way it our secret. The victim can accuse and shame in what she provoked or even itself I wanted, can do responsible for family integrity or health and wellbeing of the second parent. If mother learns, she won't worry, will leave us, the father will be put in prison, etc. There are cases when the second parent knows about the events, but also convinces the child not to take out it out of family limits. The child victim becomes the hostage of shame of family and the carrier of a terrible secret. He can't tell, complain, ask to anybody about the help because the ban is imposed on disclosure of a family secret, but he also is afraid to tell. The child can be afraid that he won't be believed, will accuse, it can be a shame to him that it happened to him. Even small children usually feel that they with them do something forbidden, shameful, wrong, but they can't separate psychologically themselves from the Actually, this obligation to be silent about violence also causes the strongest travmatization. Yes, the incest is a gross violation of borders, it is operation and humiliation, it is a nightmare which is endured by the victim often for many years, but impossibility about it to tell, receive a consolation and protection, aggravate a Still the distinctive feature of an intsestny trauma – violence carries out the one to someone the child trusts someone he loves by definition someone has to care and protect. It not just treachery:the parent kind of becomes the sexual partner. The confusion of roles leaves a characteristic mark on the identity of the victim and its ways to build the I can't consider an incest as a single trauma. It is, in my opinion, a family symptom. Possibly, the system in which there is an incest all is dysfunctional. It doesn't mean at all that intsestny families have to be poor, antisocial, consist of psychopaths, addicts ит. It is one of myths about a I have not enough cases for a big research, but there is enough to assume a multiple trauma at the victims of an incest. They are usually injured many times, and to the incest, and in time, and later. In the course of therapy becomes clear that the child in such family was a general container for dumping of various quashed feelings:rage, sexual excitement, shame, fault, disgust. Also almost at all victims of an incest I observe an early trauma of Mothers of children – the victims of an incest are conditionally divided into two groups. The first – passive aggressive, sozavisimy, psychologically unripe women who aren't able to support emotionally the baby, without saying about protecting the grown-up child from the tyrant. Such mothers very much are early adopted or psychologically marry in relation to own children that in itself appears a kind of a psychological incest. The second – imperious, emotionally cold, controlling, functional, it is frequent (but not always) cruel mothers. Such mothers can be absorbing and incestuous and also indifferent, sometimes cynical witnesses of violence in family. It is no wonder that children tell nothing to them:safety and trust are broken. Many times it is less women who are carrying out direct sexual actions concerning children, than men. Social researches say that about 90% of percent of the criminals who committed sexual violence over children – men. In my practice approximately 4 women were the share of 20 cases, from them only two made direct actions of sexual What experience is got by children as a result of an incest? And what consequences are shown at them already at adult age? Long violence forms psychology of the victim. Rebenokpoluchayet experience of helplessness, learns to suffer, suppress fear, pain, disgust, anger. Already at adult age such people often are victims of violence, both sexual, and psychological. Functional address. The child is used, ignoring his feelings and desires. Growing, the victim of an incest seeks to be intimate necessary, to sacrifice the interests for the sake of another, at any cost to conform to requirements of others for the sake of good attitude to itself. They have a fear that if they stop being convenient and necessary, they will be left forever. And, certainly, they concern themselves too functionally and is even ruthless. 3. Gross violation of borders, often lack of any borders. It is unclear, where I where Another – my body doesn't belong to me, my thoughts, feelings, desires aren't important. What earlier on age sexual violence, especially serious an okazyvayutsyaposledstviye for the personality begins. The heaviest are chemical dependences, suicide behavior, boundary frustration, mental violations, phobias, depressions, masochistic trends. All clients who endured an incest in the childhood form dependent or counterdependent Life in a lie and shame. Not only the victim hides from all the shame – everyone in incestuous family about something is silent, everyone builds a lot of psychological protection not to feel shame. It is that case when in an office at first the toxic shame creeps, and the client comes then. The victims of an incest all life feel not such as everything, defective, disgusting, and put a lot of effort that to hide it from people around Most of the victims nasiliyachuvstvut themselves guilty how handled them. But the victims of an incest can also feel guilty and before the second parent for treachery., and for the fact that they don't manage to improve a relationship in family, and for the fact that they could derive pleasure during violence, and it is a lot of for what. Toxic fault of clients victims of an incest – one of the most difficult, in my opinion, places in 6. At an incest the child receives the double message:on the one hand, he is devoted in something adult, trust something serious, and it causes pride. With another – he chronically doesn't cope with responsibility conferred on him, the role can't do to him, and it causes despair and powerlessness. Growing, they and rush about between two poles, falling into grandness, into 7. Confusion of roles in family and problems with identity. In classical option of an incest, the girl tempted with the father very much early wins the competition against mother and takes the place of the wife (mistress), at the same time remaining the child and the daughter. For the father she isn't able to cope with a role of the woman owing to age, and she can't be identified with mother as doesn't trust her – mother herself doesn't cope with a role of mother and wife. These girls, irrespective of age, psychologically remain the unripe, eternally young lolita able to tempt men and to compete with women. At the same time a relationship of proximity neither with those, nor with others are inaccessible to them. Incest as love substitute. The love and care of the parent is necessary for the child, and he is ready for everything if only her to receive. And often a relationship with the tyrant is the closest. Many victims of an incest, except fear, disgust and shame, feel also affection for the parent, and gratitude that that spent time with them, gave gifts and so forth. Also some children can experience Substitution results, and all significant relationship seksualizirutsya. Adult clients can seksualizirovat different requirements:in care, attention, recognition, etc. Without realizing the true desires, they can feel excitement and tempt. Also, if to them someone shows attention, sympathy, interest, they perceive it as flirtation and the invitation to sex. It is worth noticing that it is peculiar to not all victims of an incest, but the psychological sheaf love – violence is at all. Some deserve love sex, others – sacrificing themselves in other ways. Early sexual stimulation and sexual trauma conduct to various narusheniyamv to the sexual sphere and in perception of the body. There is a lot of these violations, the most widespread of them – discontent with the body, up to dysmorphophobia, complexity in integration of emotional love and sexual. Clients often experience difficulties with excitement in close relations where they are really loved, at the same time easily become excited and derive sexual pleasure in accidental communications. Many victims of an incest belong to sex as to something dirty and disgusting, mechanistic, have disgust and fear of a certain type of sex. Most of my clients can't refuse sex to the partner, and during sex can't tell no when actions of the partner bring them discomfort. The vast majority treats the body very functionally – not only in the sexual sphere, but also in all others. [img] https://sun9-38.userapi.com/impg/QGsGAgR60--buAMRfvj-DUU2_re9jfcpGfNzYg/Ye8lyGJpKkk.jpg?size=75x56&quality=96&sign=702cdd7105ff3565e9d9098a6bac939d&c_uniq_tag=54hRfUBoHzuJPc7IIxet-js6tcK_Xsx0FwjfVMWvhDg&type=album [/img]
All this is correct, but what to explain a voluntary incest of mother and son at mature age? Any coercion and any violence! Only unearthly feelings and feeling of gratitude both at the son, and at mother! Any psychological problems, consequences and the more so injuries! I speak about it, so to speak, with consciousness of business as practiced such relationship with mother a long time. I am married, two children, a relationship with the wife fine, sex regular, but always found time for satisfaction of lonely mother.
All this is correct, but what to explain a voluntary incest of mother and son at mature age? Any coercion and any violence! Only unearthly feelings and feeling of gratitude both at the son, and at mother! Any psychological problems, consequences and the more so injuries! I speak about it, so to speak, with consciousness of business as practiced such relationship with mother a long time. I am married, two children, a relationship with the wife fine, sex regular, but always found time for satisfaction of lonely mother.
And somebody had it, you fucked with the mother and she became pregnant from you? Someone and how with the mother fucked with condom or without? Someone cumed in the mother? And at somebody was what mother after sex with you became pregnant?
And somebody had it, you fucked with the mother and she became pregnant from you? Someone and how with the mother fucked with condom or without? Someone cumed in the mother? And at somebody was what mother after sex with you became pregnant?
Not a really rough discussion, but, perhaps, I will add a couple of words from myself.
Already for a long time I communicate with people passed, endured something like that … but …
In advance I will specify …
I communicated only with those for someone the incident was of own will and at more or less conscious age. Because, in my opinion, in case of use of violence, whether it be physical or psychological, this usual abuse of the adult over the child. In this case the child gets out the victim rather as the one someone it is easier to check, intimidate, force to be silent, one way or another, than as desire with the. Incest here not absolutely right word, usual violence. Or at least, this my Mother son communicated with couples, others not that didn't come across, others, not that didn't come across, but weren't especially interesting.
And generally, taking into account exceptions on age and methods …
By experience of communication with such mothers, there was an impression that tendency to an incest at them, desire and interest in a subject, are rather a form of sexual orientation to similarity of sexual minorities than a perversion and sexual dissoluteness. Yes, as orientation, is quite degenerate form since for sexual minorities to find to themselves couple nevertheless not such a problem, and here the circle of potential candidates is obviously small …
I came to this conclusion because at the beginning of communication there was an opinion that mothers who are interested in the sons as men it is dismissed, to some extent aggressive, without the special moral principles … well further something like that …
But in the course of communication, those someone approached under a portrait above, as a rule was visionaries in network, was cut off on trifles in their tales of how they well live with the sonnies …
There were those someone in character and to temperament it is rather gray mice, they were no good under a role aggressive, capable to lay anyone under themselves and all the same that it is their There were those someone destroyed by the history the myth that with the son, it because there is nobody any more. They quite had a choice without special All of them without exception understood that it can have negative consequences, in many aspects, not only to psychology … but at the same time went on it … or at least very much wanted it …
And here so, one by one all traditional answers to why mothers go on it somehow didn't find confirmation in communication … were more true disproved …
After a while the thought of what all those cases about which it happened to learn very much remind … in general came as live … as representatives of sexual minorities … quite similar feelings …
Also there was one couple where mother and the son …
Generally for them that case where similar interest (orientation) dropped out … were mutual...
As far as they know live more than ten years … and to some extent are even happy … if of course a word are happy is applicable …
Not a really rough discussion, but, perhaps, I will add a couple of words from myself.
Already for a long time I communicate with people passed, endured something like that … but … In advance I will specify …
I communicated only with those for someone the incident was of own will and at more or less conscious age. Because, in my opinion, in case of use of violence, whether it be physical or psychological, this usual abuse of the adult over the child. In this case the child gets out the victim rather as the one someone it is easier to check, intimidate, force to be silent, one way or another, than as desire with the. Incest here not absolutely right word, usual violence. Or at least, this my Mother son communicated with couples, others not that didn't come across, others, not that didn't come across, but weren't especially interesting.
And generally, taking into account exceptions on age and methods … By experience of communication with such mothers, there was an impression that tendency to an incest at them, desire and interest in a subject, are rather a form of sexual orientation to similarity of sexual minorities than a perversion and sexual dissoluteness. Yes, as orientation, is quite degenerate form since for sexual minorities to find to themselves couple nevertheless not such a problem, and here the circle of potential candidates is obviously small … I came to this conclusion because at the beginning of communication there was an opinion that mothers who are interested in the sons as men it is dismissed, to some extent aggressive, without the special moral principles … well further something like that … But in the course of communication, those someone approached under a portrait above, as a rule was visionaries in network, was cut off on trifles in their tales of how they well live with the sonnies … There were those someone in character and to temperament it is rather gray mice, they were no good under a role aggressive, capable to lay anyone under themselves and all the same that it is their There were those someone destroyed by the history the myth that with the son, it because there is nobody any more. They quite had a choice without special All of them without exception understood that it can have negative consequences, in many aspects, not only to psychology … but at the same time went on it … or at least very much wanted it …
And here so, one by one all traditional answers to why mothers go on it somehow didn't find confirmation in communication … were more true disproved …
After a while the thought of what all those cases about which it happened to learn very much remind … in general came as live … as representatives of sexual minorities … quite similar feelings …
Also there was one couple where mother and the son … Generally for them that case where similar interest (orientation) dropped out … were mutual... As far as they know live more than ten years … and to some extent are even happy … if of course a word are happy is applicable …
[ref] katerina68 [/ref] , at me is other experience of communication:men are interested in an incest generally, and there can be only men. In chats men pose as women (blue) and tell about sex with the son.
[ref] katerina68 [/ref] , at me is other experience of communication:men are interested in an incest generally, and there can be only men. In chats men pose as women (blue) and tell about sex with the son. And at forums also.
It agrees that the majority of stories are someone's imagination... percent so 90-95... if not <99...br/> But also real cases are quite enough also mother not without sin here...
[ref] Skilled [/ref] , It agrees that the majority of stories are someone's imagination... percent so 90-95... if not But also real cases are quite enough also mother not without sin here...
Dear katerina68. I am 30 years old and up to this point I was a virgin though I am an ordinary lovely guy. And I had first time with my mother, she is 50 years old though looks for about 40 years. Beautiful. We live together some. Divorced the father when I was 12 years old. Generally I hardly made up the mind to this responsible step in September I asked mother to deprive of me virginity, and it is just horror as mother very strongly swore on me and even подщёчин gave couple to me and she cried. I asked her nearly a week and she agreed. On September 18 we made it. And now we sleep two months together in one bed and we have sex. What could you tell about it? Whether correctly I arrived?
Dear katerina68. I am 30 years old and up to this point I was a virgin though I am an ordinary lovely guy. And I had first time with my mother, she is 50 years old though looks for about 40 years. Beautiful. We live together some. Divorced the father when I was 12 years old. Generally I hardly made up the mind to this responsible step in September I asked mother to deprive of me virginity, and it is just horror as mother very strongly swore on me and even подщёчин gave couple to me and she cried. I asked her nearly a week and she agreed. On September 18 we made it. And now we sleep two months together in one bed and we have sex. What could you tell about it? Whether correctly I arrived?
[ref] серг [/ref] , And so like the small child on yours it is normal to fuck? The idiot You and the faggot, In the furnace you the bastard of *x) *x) *x) the Freak of anything human
[ref] серг [/ref] , And so like the small child on yours it is normal to fuck? The idiot You and the faggot, In the furnace you the bastard of *x) *x) *x) the Freak of anything human
Question that such And taking into account age, even of 18 years, can be difficult to distinguish consent from unwillingness to contradict and opposes to the senior.
Question that such And taking into account age, even of 18 years, can be difficult to distinguish consent from unwillingness to contradict and opposes to the senior.
[quote=katerina68 post_id=2926 time=1647769659 user_id=171] Question that such And taking into account age, even of 18 years, can be difficult to distinguish consent from unwillingness to contradict and opposes to the senior. [/quote]
[quote=katerina68 post_id=2926 time=1647769659 user_id=171] Question that such And taking into account age, even of 18 years, can be difficult to distinguish consent from unwillingness to contradict and opposes to the senior. [/quote]
[quote=katerina68 post_id=3095 time=1649393988 user_id=171] Depends on what exactly to consider such cases, but yes, meet. And it isn't so rare [/quote] That mother voluntarily enters sexual relations with the son
More true so, in particular age and relationship mother son, in normal conditions. Similar means desire from mother that kind of includes her good will. The feature is that these cases practically always remain unknown if there is no direct violence of course.
Yes. Voluntarily and at own will. More true so, in particular age and relationship mother son, in normal conditions. Similar means desire from mother that kind of includes her good will. The feature is that these cases practically always remain unknown if there is no direct violence of course.
[quote=katerina68 post_id=3102 time=1649398235 user_id=171] Yes. Voluntarily and at own will.
More true so, in particular age and relationship mother son, in normal conditions. Similar means desire from mother that kind of includes her good will. The feature is that these cases practically always remain unknown if there is no direct violence of course. [/quote] Victims of violence often are silent, agrees.
But if voluntarily mother with the son, then the son for certain would tell someone about it, well probability is such. But in real life from anybody I didn't hear similar stories
[quote=katerina68 post_id=3102 time=1649398235 user_id=171] Yes. Voluntarily and at own will. More true so, in particular age and relationship mother son, in normal conditions. Similar means desire from mother that kind of includes her good will. The feature is that these cases practically always remain unknown if there is no direct violence of course. [/quote] Victims of violence often are silent, agrees. But if voluntarily mother with the son, then the son for certain would tell someone about it, well probability is such. But in real life from anybody I didn't hear similar stories
[quote=psks1190 post_id=3109 time=1649404928 user_id=721] Victims of violence often are silent, agrees.
But if voluntarily mother with the son, then the son for certain would tell someone about it, well probability is such. But in real life from anybody I didn't hear similar stories [/quote] Into the account I told, hardly...
[quote=psks1190 post_id=3109 time=1649404928 user_id=721] Victims of violence often are silent, agrees. But if voluntarily mother with the son, then the son for certain would tell someone about it, well probability is such. But in real life from anybody I didn't hear similar stories [/quote] Into the account I told, hardly...
[quote=katerina68 post_id=857 time=1637235549 user_id=171] Not really rough discussion, but, perhaps, I will add a couple of words from myself. [/quote] What about a situation when against the background of hyper sexuality of the son mother decides to help him? By just masturbation, or does him blowjob regularly, or even sometimes gives also sexual intercourse?
Or, if mother wants to present to the son experience, and she gives him herself, but only once. Or she wants to teach him to sex, and they are engaged in him some time, but then stop.
Or, if mother just wants to make to the son to the son pleasant in the form of blowjob, but no more.
What can you tell about similar situations? Similar cases are known to you?
[quote=katerina68 post_id=857 time=1637235549 user_id=171] Not really rough discussion, but, perhaps, I will add a couple of words from myself. [/quote] What about a situation when against the background of hyper sexuality of the son mother decides to help him? By just masturbation, or does him blowjob regularly, or even sometimes gives also sexual intercourse? Or, if mother wants to present to the son experience, and she gives him herself, but only once. Or she wants to teach him to sex, and they are engaged in him some time, but then stop. Or, if mother just wants to make to the son to the son pleasant in the form of blowjob, but no more. What can you tell about similar situations? Similar cases are known to you?
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7223 time=1659513490 user_id=462] What about a situation when against the background of hyper sexuality of the son mother decides to help him? By just masturbation, or does him blowjob regularly, or even sometimes gives also sexual intercourse?
Or, if mother wants to present to the son experience, and she gives him herself, but only once. Or she wants to teach him to sex, and they are engaged in him some time, but then stop.
Or, if mother just wants to make to the son to the son pleasant in the form of blowjob, but no more.
What can you tell about similar situations? Similar cases are known to you? [/quote]
If it is interesting …
And if … well not in style of a porn of stories and comics …
At reasonably teenage age of the boy, initiative, peculiar permission to intim, it always and without any exception mother's initiative, her choice and her decision. Realization can vary a little from direct aggression (seducing and active pushing in the necessary party) and to so to say small concessions and connivance, though in this case the last step on her.
And mother can say something in the manner oh the sonny give I to you I will help only if she wants to drag him in a In this context and, there was a similar case, but somehow that it was necessary for her …
And otherwise, if mother has no interest …
The boy can though how to flaunt … he just will go that is told by the wood …
They have elementary different weight category in these games. The sonny in fact nobody, the teenager only and thinking that about sex and in respect of practice at most the same any little girl, and in most cases this porn and the imagination involved on that with masturbation …
And she … well somehow trifle is more senior is more adult more cleverly and is more skilled in every respect and from all directions …
So only in that case if it is necessary to her …
And how exactly? … Well besides as she will solve that …
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7223 time=1659513490 user_id=462] What about a situation when against the background of hyper sexuality of the son mother decides to help him? By just masturbation, or does him blowjob regularly, or even sometimes gives also sexual intercourse? Or, if mother wants to present to the son experience, and she gives him herself, but only once. Or she wants to teach him to sex, and they are engaged in him some time, but then stop. Or, if mother just wants to make to the son to the son pleasant in the form of blowjob, but no more. What can you tell about similar situations? Similar cases are known to you? [/quote]
If it is interesting … And if … well not in style of a porn of stories and comics …
At reasonably teenage age of the boy, initiative, peculiar permission to intim, it always and without any exception mother's initiative, her choice and her decision. Realization can vary a little from direct aggression (seducing and active pushing in the necessary party) and to so to say small concessions and connivance, though in this case the last step on her. And mother can say something in the manner oh the sonny give I to you I will help only if she wants to drag him in a In this context and, there was a similar case, but somehow that it was necessary for her …
And otherwise, if mother has no interest … The boy can though how to flaunt … he just will go that is told by the wood … They have elementary different weight category in these games. The sonny in fact nobody, the teenager only and thinking that about sex and in respect of practice at most the same any little girl, and in most cases this porn and the imagination involved on that with masturbation … And she … well somehow trifle is more senior is more adult more cleverly and is more skilled in every respect and from all directions …
So only in that case if it is necessary to her … And how exactly? … Well besides as she will solve that …
[quote=katerina68 post_id=7225 time=1659519790 user_id=171] In this context and, there was a similar case, but somehow that it was necessary for her … [/quote] you Will tell in brief this case?
And you also consider a help situation from mother inadmissible? Even just in respect of masturbation and blowjob? And if mother just undresses before the son, will allow to touch herself, to jerk off on herself, will teach to put on condom?
[quote=katerina68 post_id=7225 time=1659519790 user_id=171] In this context and, there was a similar case, but somehow that it was necessary for her … [/quote] you Will tell in brief this case?
And you also consider a help situation from mother inadmissible? Even just in respect of masturbation and blowjob? And if mother just undresses before the son, will allow to touch herself, to jerk off on herself, will teach to put on condom?
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7228 time=1659522202 user_id=462] And you also consider a help situation from mother inadmissible? Even just in respect of masturbation and blowjob? And if mother just undresses before the son, will allow to touch herself, to jerk off on herself, will teach to put on condom? [/quote]
Help in what? What for? He dies? Or the disabled person to level what even itself can't move?
Or the dying disabled person?
Will perfectly cope...
And all the rest...
Only if it is necessary for her... that yes...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7228 time=1659522202 user_id=462] will teach to put on condom? [/quote]
Yes...
This really Without the highest that in any way... and even two...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7228 time=1659522202 user_id=462] Will you tell in brief this case? [/quote]
Besides...
To local
He spied upon her...
That in general for boys quite naturally...
Somewhere after it began, but before sex I found her at one nowadays already late She told about similar attention from the sonny. I told also that I read a pier on this But in fact from her words it was possible to understand that the moral aspect not very much concerns her...
Further she arranged the necessary When it it seemed a little, already by force I tumbled down the boy not especially asking his consent and I made that wanted...
And somewhere in weeks two (from the first time to a kick from her bed)... having wound improbable 3 times in sweated...
I exposed the sonny back to his favourite computer and a porno... and hand to the
To him... from her words... she told something in the manner of what you write... "the sonny now you are able to do everything also you such cool" now look for the girl and so forth laudatory...
She in correspondence told me about the impressions already a little another...
The fact that for the first time still there was some passion and something like that ostrenky...
And further he puffed a bit something from above hardly having got where it is necessary the dick... also I terminated...
That kind of in general not that she to herself imagined...
On what her improbable and dizzy incest fuck with the sonny also ended...
Yes... if from this story to peel all this ridiculous That ууууу... incest... the sonny spied upon mother and achieved the...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7228 time=1659522202 user_id=462] And you also consider a help situation from mother inadmissible? Even just in respect of masturbation and blowjob? And if mother just undresses before the son, will allow to touch herself, to jerk off on herself, will teach to put on condom? [/quote]
Help in what? What for? He dies? Or the disabled person to level what even itself can't move? Or the dying disabled person?
Will perfectly cope...
And all the rest... Only if it is necessary for her... that yes...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7228 time=1659522202 user_id=462] will teach to put on condom? [/quote]
Yes... This really Without the highest that in any way... and even two...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7228 time=1659522202 user_id=462] Will you tell in brief this case? [/quote]
Besides... To local
He spied upon her... That in general for boys quite naturally...
Somewhere after it began, but before sex I found her at one nowadays already late She told about similar attention from the sonny. I told also that I read a pier on this But in fact from her words it was possible to understand that the moral aspect not very much concerns her...
Further she arranged the necessary When it it seemed a little, already by force I tumbled down the boy not especially asking his consent and I made that wanted...
And somewhere in weeks two (from the first time to a kick from her bed)... having wound improbable 3 times in sweated... I exposed the sonny back to his favourite computer and a porno... and hand to the
To him... from her words... she told something in the manner of what you write... "the sonny now you are able to do everything also you such cool" now look for the girl and so forth laudatory...
She in correspondence told me about the impressions already a little another... The fact that for the first time still there was some passion and something like that ostrenky... And further he puffed a bit something from above hardly having got where it is necessary the dick... also I terminated... That kind of in general not that she to herself imagined...
On what her improbable and dizzy incest fuck with the sonny also ended...
Yes... if from this story to peel all this ridiculous That ууууу... incest... the sonny spied upon mother and achieved the...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7231 time=1659529875 user_id=462] katerina68 And if mother wants to suck off to the son, then why not? At least once. Though she wants it, but he too will be very glad. [/quote] [quote=katerina68 post_id=7230 time=1659526870 user_id=171] if it is necessary for her... that yes... [/quote]
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7231 time=1659529875 user_id=462] katerina68 And if mother wants to suck off to the son, then why not? At least once. Though she wants it, but he too will be very glad. [/quote] [quote=katerina68 post_id=7230 time=1659526870 user_id=171] if it is necessary for her... that yes... [/quote]
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7233 time=1659532716 user_id=462] katerina68, That is you consider it admissible if mother and the son both want it and are happy? Or I didn't understand you? [/quote]
Incest in general?
It not absolutely from category admissible or not... it is simple to eat...
Negative or still any relation here at anything...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7233 time=1659532716 user_id=462] katerina68, That is you consider it admissible if mother and the son both want it and are happy? Or I didn't understand you? [/quote]
Incest in general?
It not absolutely from category admissible or not... it is simple to eat... Negative or still any relation here at anything...
In return I only... I try to understand psychology of similar...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7282 time=1659644330 user_id=462] katerina68, if it isn't a secret, how you began to be interested in this subject and why about mother and the son? [/quote] Not secret … But there is nothing to tell …
I am interested as something that is far outside normality …
And "mother son", most likely as the most rare deal in similar stories …
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7282 time=1659644330 user_id=462] katerina68, if it isn't a secret, how you began to be interested in this subject and why about mother and the son? [/quote] Not secret … But there is nothing to tell … I am interested as something that is far outside normality … And "mother son", most likely as the most rare deal in similar stories …
[ref] katerina68 [/ref] , to you are known to history of full-fledged sex life of mother and the son in which both know that both do, derive pleasure and are happy with everything?
If yes, that according to what scenario they came to this relationship as far as they are happy with it how far they come in sex whether is anal Did you learn such stories only from women or from men too?
[ref] katerina68 [/ref] , to you are known to history of full-fledged sex life of mother and the son in which both know that both do, derive pleasure and are happy with everything? If yes, that according to what scenario they came to this relationship as far as they are happy with it how far they come in sex whether is anal Did you learn such stories only from women or from men too?
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7363 time=1659732579 user_id=462] katerina68, to you are known to history of full-fledged sex life of mother and the son in which both know that both do, derive pleasure and are happy with everything?
If yes, that according to what scenario they came to this relationship as far as they are happy with it how far they come in sex whether is anal Did you learn such stories only from women or from men too? [/quote]
For single to exceptions and from women. Though so to say characters someone gave himself for the son in similar history there was much more. But most of them were cut off either on idiotic history or on mathematics or sklerozit the baizes or on elementary logic of
It would be desirable to specify that you mean by the words " full-fledged sex life "...
But if in interpretation of the fact that a relationship is long, then it is quite difficult. The boy, he has no corresponding experience, it is elementary not from where to take, didn't acquire still. And as well as I wrote earlier if the woman has no obvious tendency to domination and to some extent even to violence, then all this will come down to puffing of the youth in a bed... that not especially that is interesting...
And from all, there was one mother who... so to say... I used a soft form of violence... I forced I directed and I controlled the sonny. More than 10 years are him. I got acquainted with her about about two three years ago and on the basis of the fact that she told actually and I try to write something in the manner of the
Into the account "we are happy with everything"...
No, such wasn't. Anyway it creates some problems to some extent.
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7363 time=1659732579 user_id=462] katerina68, to you are known to history of full-fledged sex life of mother and the son in which both know that both do, derive pleasure and are happy with everything? If yes, that according to what scenario they came to this relationship as far as they are happy with it how far they come in sex whether is anal Did you learn such stories only from women or from men too? [/quote]
For single to exceptions and from women. Though so to say characters someone gave himself for the son in similar history there was much more. But most of them were cut off either on idiotic history or on mathematics or sklerozit the baizes or on elementary logic of
It would be desirable to specify that you mean by the words " full-fledged sex life "... But if in interpretation of the fact that a relationship is long, then it is quite difficult. The boy, he has no corresponding experience, it is elementary not from where to take, didn't acquire still. And as well as I wrote earlier if the woman has no obvious tendency to domination and to some extent even to violence, then all this will come down to puffing of the youth in a bed... that not especially that is interesting...
And from all, there was one mother who... so to say... I used a soft form of violence... I forced I directed and I controlled the sonny. More than 10 years are him. I got acquainted with her about about two three years ago and on the basis of the fact that she told actually and I try to write something in the manner of the
Into the account "we are happy with everything"... No, such wasn't. Anyway it creates some problems to some extent.
[ref] katerina68 [/ref] , under "full-fledged sex life" I mean mother and the adult, already skilled, the son which came to sex at mutual desire and fully him is realized. And as spouses have healthy high-quality sex, but not stupid puffing in a
And in your stories how I understood, only inexperienced teenagers appear?
According to mothers with whom you communicated how their sons treat it? They are grateful to mother, approach with a request of sex or only when she wants? And where mothers allow them to cum? Whether are protected?
And, in particular, history on which you gather to write the work. How it began how many it was years? Everything occurs only at will? From the son is though some initiative? Involve both holes? Are protected?
[ref] katerina68 [/ref] , under "full-fledged sex life" I mean mother and the adult, already skilled, the son which came to sex at mutual desire and fully him is realized. And as spouses have healthy high-quality sex, but not stupid puffing in a
And in your stories how I understood, only inexperienced teenagers appear?
According to mothers with whom you communicated how their sons treat it? They are grateful to mother, approach with a request of sex or only when she wants? And where mothers allow them to cum? Whether are protected?
And, in particular, history on which you gather to write the work. How it began how many it was years? Everything occurs only at will? From the son is though some initiative? Involve both holes? Are protected?
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7477 time=1659868043 user_id=462] katerina68, under "full-fledged sex life" I mean mother and the adult, already skilled, the son which came to sex at mutual desire and fully him is realized. And as spouses have healthy high-quality sex, but not stupid puffing in a
And in your stories how I understood, only inexperienced teenagers appear?
According to mothers with whom you communicated how their sons treat it? They are grateful to mother, approach with a request of sex or only when she wants? And where mothers allow them to cum? Whether are protected?
And, in particular, history on which you gather to write the work. How it began how many it was years? Everything occurs only at will? From the son is though some initiative? Involve both holes? Are protected? [/quote]
"Skilled" means age some of more than 15-16-17-18-19 years. The man with experience which is interesting to the woman, it where that at least from <24-25...br/> Otherwise his experience it for girls of his age, there it can make an impression, and on the woman hardly.
And incest stories, as a rule keep within 15-19
About contraception. The incest or not doesn't matter someone more or less with the head, those are protected...
It is fair for any deal... and someone there... a minor matter... pregnancy doesn't depend on that someone to you it is necessary the
About Their history is stretched for more than 10 Even for the man 30-40 it is an essential interval, it in respect of change of interests and tastes. And for the boy from 18 to 28 it is already whole With her words, some own wishes and desires and something standing it somewhere by 22 years +/-
And about I didn't ask...
It wasn't interesting to me at all...
Here tell what difference at someone how many times in what pose?
Competition such perhaps?
By The only measure in intimate relations is "to me is enough".
If this is so, then kind of and remarkably. If isn't present, then the only possible questions to the And the fact that someone can be content with sex... well roughly speaking on holidays... or someone suits weekly a swing of a Both... in life... in fact comes down to the words " well and that? "...
Though I will repeat...
But...
Is enough for you you are happy... well...
No... these are your joint And that at someone something there... to you from it cold hot...
So into the account of Similar aspects of
And interest in similar...
It is interest in a pornushechka, but not to history in any way in general...
[quote= Vlad1994 post_id=7477 time=1659868043 user_id=462] katerina68, under "full-fledged sex life" I mean mother and the adult, already skilled, the son which came to sex at mutual desire and fully him is realized. And as spouses have healthy high-quality sex, but not stupid puffing in a
And in your stories how I understood, only inexperienced teenagers appear?
According to mothers with whom you communicated how their sons treat it? They are grateful to mother, approach with a request of sex or only when she wants? And where mothers allow them to cum? Whether are protected?
And, in particular, history on which you gather to write the work. How it began how many it was years? Everything occurs only at will? From the son is though some initiative? Involve both holes? Are protected? [/quote]
"Skilled" means age some of more than 15-16-17-18-19 years. The man with experience which is interesting to the woman, it where that at least from Otherwise his experience it for girls of his age, there it can make an impression, and on the woman hardly. And incest stories, as a rule keep within 15-19
About contraception. The incest or not doesn't matter someone more or less with the head, those are protected... It is fair for any deal... and someone there... a minor matter... pregnancy doesn't depend on that someone to you it is necessary the
About Their history is stretched for more than 10 Even for the man 30-40 it is an essential interval, it in respect of change of interests and tastes. And for the boy from 18 to 28 it is already whole With her words, some own wishes and desires and something standing it somewhere by 22 years +/-
And about I didn't ask... It wasn't interesting to me at all...
Here tell what difference at someone how many times in what pose? Competition such perhaps?
By The only measure in intimate relations is "to me is enough". If this is so, then kind of and remarkably. If isn't present, then the only possible questions to the And the fact that someone can be content with sex... well roughly speaking on holidays... or someone suits weekly a swing of a Both... in life... in fact comes down to the words " well and that? "...
Though I will repeat... But...
Is enough for you you are happy... well... No... these are your joint And that at someone something there... to you from it cold hot...
So into the account of Similar aspects of
And interest in similar... It is interest in a pornushechka, but not to history in any way in general...
[quote=katerina68 post_id=7481 time=1659873538 user_id=171] And interest in similar... [/quote] Do you read English-speaking forums? Though there and too there are enough visionaries, but come across suitable stories, even photos are. The words about love, respect and mutual consent in difference are especially selected from...
[quote=katerina68 post_id=7481 time=1659873538 user_id=171] And interest in similar... [/quote] Do you read English-speaking forums? Though there and too there are enough visionaries, but come across suitable stories, even photos are. The words about love, respect and mutual consent in difference are especially selected from...
[quote=Darius post_id=8852 time=1662359527 user_id=1997] Do you read English-speaking forums? Though there and too there are enough visionaries, but come across suitable stories, even photos are. The words about love, respect and mutual consent in difference are especially selected from... [/quote]
I read from time to time, but and Russian-speaking quite is enough for me.
And than on yours words about allegedly love and respect are betrayed reliability?
It seems as vostorzhenny and more grandiosely looks?
[quote=Darius post_id=8852 time=1662359527 user_id=1997] Do you read English-speaking forums? Though there and too there are enough visionaries, but come across suitable stories, even photos are. The words about love, respect and mutual consent in difference are especially selected from... [/quote]
I read from time to time, but and Russian-speaking quite is enough for me.
And than on yours words about allegedly love and respect are betrayed reliability? It seems as vostorzhenny and more grandiosely looks?
[quote=katerina68 post_id=8870 time=1662366080 user_id=171] I read from time to time, but and Russian-speaking quite is enough for me.
And than on yours words about allegedly love and respect are betrayed reliability?
It seems as vostorzhenny and more grandiosely looks? [/quote] Which case, what here Just the kakba didn't develop, mother is a mother, and it is advisable to respect her, but not to use as a thing. Not allegedly and to show love. I meant that there is a distinctive difference in manifestation of sexuality and feelings, there is a discussion of these subjects between partners, but not just to snoshatsya.
And reliability, already to solve to the reader. Some are more plausible as you tear off history of the first the message with a question as well as you see further development an event within months, sometimes fotoocht and you draw conclusions.
[quote=katerina68 post_id=8870 time=1662366080 user_id=171] I read from time to time, but and Russian-speaking quite is enough for me.
And than on yours words about allegedly love and respect are betrayed reliability? It seems as vostorzhenny and more grandiosely looks? [/quote] Which case, what here Just the kakba didn't develop, mother is a mother, and it is advisable to respect her, but not to use as a thing. Not allegedly and to show love. I meant that there is a distinctive difference in manifestation of sexuality and feelings, there is a discussion of these subjects between partners, but not just to snoshatsya. And reliability, already to solve to the reader. Some are more plausible as you tear off history of the first the message with a question as well as you see further development an event within months, sometimes fotoocht and you draw conclusions.
[quote=Darius post_id=8885 time=1662370114 user_id=1997] Which case, what here Just the kakba didn't develop, mother is a mother, and it is advisable to respect her, but not to use as a thing. Not allegedly and to show love. I meant that there is a distinctive difference in manifestation of sexuality and feelings, there is a discussion of these subjects between partners, but not just to snoshatsya.
And reliability, already to solve to the reader. Some are more plausible as you tear off history of the first the message with a question as well as you see further development an event within months, sometimes fotoocht and you draw conclusions. [/quote]
We are familiar with a phrase from the world of medicine?
"If the patient complains of more than three places of pain, then most likely he lies"
[quote=Darius post_id=8885 time=1662370114 user_id=1997] Which case, what here Just the kakba didn't develop, mother is a mother, and it is advisable to respect her, but not to use as a thing. Not allegedly and to show love. I meant that there is a distinctive difference in manifestation of sexuality and feelings, there is a discussion of these subjects between partners, but not just to snoshatsya. And reliability, already to solve to the reader. Some are more plausible as you tear off history of the first the message with a question as well as you see further development an event within months, sometimes fotoocht and you draw conclusions. [/quote]
We are familiar with a phrase from the world of medicine? "If the patient complains of more than three places of pain, then most likely he lies"
[quote=katerina68 post_id=8888 time=1662370714 user_id=171] We are familiar with a phrase from the world of medicine?
"If the patient complains of more than three places of pain, then most likely he lies" [/quote] Not absolutely I understood what to belong your phrase to. I lie or they lie?
[quote=katerina68 post_id=8888 time=1662370714 user_id=171] We are familiar with a phrase from the world of medicine? "If the patient complains of more than three places of pain, then most likely he lies" [/quote] Not absolutely I understood what to belong your phrase to. I lie or they lie?
[quote=Darius post_id=8889 time=1662370949 user_id=1997] Not absolutely I understood what to belong your phrase to. I lie or they lie? [/quote]
You meanwhile especially wrote nothing so it about others.
But...
There is such principle if the patient comes and in a conversation with the doctor complains that it hurts him more than in three places, then most likely he or lies or this auto-suggestion. It went from states since at them quite often register narcotic as anesthetics and it was necessary to eliminate somehow...
But most works also in other spheres of Incest rare Shooting of the joys, even for usual couple, it not crime, but nevertheless is far from the universal The calculation of shootings in the Internet with the words " here we ", by the nature exhibitionism. That too Plus to it if here to look through, then many write about age not that 16-18, but also is much younger that already a nesovershennoletka with all that it implies.
And what probability that in one set so many deviations are combined?
In a sosravneniye with it in a lottery to carry simply trifling
So yes, silly inventions don't depend on that what language is spoken by the visionary.
[quote=Darius post_id=8889 time=1662370949 user_id=1997] Not absolutely I understood what to belong your phrase to. I lie or they lie? [/quote]
You meanwhile especially wrote nothing so it about others.
But...
There is such principle if the patient comes and in a conversation with the doctor complains that it hurts him more than in three places, then most likely he or lies or this auto-suggestion. It went from states since at them quite often register narcotic as anesthetics and it was necessary to eliminate somehow...
But most works also in other spheres of Incest rare Shooting of the joys, even for usual couple, it not crime, but nevertheless is far from the universal The calculation of shootings in the Internet with the words " here we ", by the nature exhibitionism. That too Plus to it if here to look through, then many write about age not that 16-18, but also is much younger that already a nesovershennoletka with all that it implies.
And what probability that in one set so many deviations are combined? In a sosravneniye with it in a lottery to carry simply trifling
So yes, silly inventions don't depend on that what language is spoken by the visionary.
[quote=katerina68 post_id=8890 time=1662372802 user_id=171] And what probability that in one set so many deviations are combined?
In a sosravneniye with it in a lottery to carry just trifling matter... [/quote]
Ah, here you about what. I guessed, but nevertheless decided to specify. I believe it that, we shake on some swing, but on the different parties.
Unfortunately, I will upset you. Probably you went deep into male mentality insufficiently. You remember, the fairy tale a lie and in her быль. Yes, all these stories off the wall, but these imaginations not from a blank space. I think, it is good that over time boys mature and taboo to the desires, layers imposing from above education, religion and public morals итд. Otherwise people would be terrified to consequences, and shooting these only children's overindulgence. I don't want to pose as Freud or someone, and I only tell the observations.
Concerning the western resources, there people there is less assotsirovana with religion and public morals that is imposed on relationship, and say about feelings and torments of the choice more that does stories to less fantastic. I don't warrant for the truth, but agree that it is simple to cross such barrier not so from what party look.
But, me dear Katerina, zaintersovat your person. And also, your view of such relationship and what motives induced you to start to writing of such novel?!
[quote=katerina68 post_id=8890 time=1662372802 user_id=171] And what probability that in one set so many deviations are combined? In a sosravneniye with it in a lottery to carry just trifling matter... [/quote]
Ah, here you about what. I guessed, but nevertheless decided to specify. I believe it that, we shake on some swing, but on the different parties. Unfortunately, I will upset you. Probably you went deep into male mentality insufficiently. You remember, the fairy tale a lie and in her быль. Yes, all these stories off the wall, but these imaginations not from a blank space. I think, it is good that over time boys mature and taboo to the desires, layers imposing from above education, religion and public morals итд. Otherwise people would be terrified to consequences, and shooting these only children's overindulgence. I don't want to pose as Freud or someone, and I only tell the observations.
Concerning the western resources, there people there is less assotsirovana with religion and public morals that is imposed on relationship, and say about feelings and torments of the choice more that does stories to less fantastic. I don't warrant for the truth, but agree that it is simple to cross such barrier not so from what party look.
But, me dear Katerina, zaintersovat your person. And also, your view of such relationship and what motives induced you to start to writing of such novel?!
[quote=Darius post_id=8894 time=1662380110 user_id=1997] Concerning the western resources, there people there is less assotsirovana with religion and public morals that is imposed on relationship, and say about feelings and torments of the choice more that does stories to less fantastic. I don't warrant for the truth, but agree that it is simple to cross such barrier not so from what party look. [/quote]
West very extensible... As however and
But I am amused not so much by imaginations how many frank idiocy in some of them...
Well it is cool... as pornclownery... as the boy who acts up and exposes himself... in the manner of the
[quote=Darius post_id=8894 time=1662380110 user_id=1997] ... and what motives induced you to start to writing of such novel?! [/quote]
In a word...
Once I communicated with people on Then I wrote to one of them the small story... that in fact almost And then I began work on the book/a history/novel or as there to call it...
[quote=Darius post_id=8894 time=1662380110 user_id=1997] Concerning the western resources, there people there is less assotsirovana with religion and public morals that is imposed on relationship, and say about feelings and torments of the choice more that does stories to less fantastic. I don't warrant for the truth, but agree that it is simple to cross such barrier not so from what party look. [/quote]
West very extensible... As however and
But I am amused not so much by imaginations how many frank idiocy in some of them... Well it is cool... as pornclownery... as the boy who acts up and exposes himself... in the manner of the
[quote=Darius post_id=8894 time=1662380110 user_id=1997] ... and what motives induced you to start to writing of such novel?! [/quote]
In a word...
Once I communicated with people on Then I wrote to one of them the small story... that in fact almost And then I began work on the book/a history/novel or as there to call it...
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